Putting Anna to bed.
Anna: Daddy, I want to tell you about when Tessa was born.
Me: Okay, sweetie.
Anna: Well, Mommy was pregnant. And her tummy was really big.
Me: Uh huh.
Anna: And little Tessa was saying: “It’s time for me to come out now.”
Me: Right…
Anna: So that’s when we got a knife.
Me (horrified): Wait, what..?
Anna: That’s when we got a knife so we could help Tessa get outta there.
Me: What do you think we did with a knife?
Anna: Well, we took the knife, and we, like *makes cutting motion across her abdomen*
Me: What? We did what with the knife?
Anna: We cut mommy open with it. We cut her tummy. And that’s when our Tessa was born!
Yay! Welcome to the world Tessa! You were born by a jury-rigged butcher-knife Cesarian performed by your loving family, apparently!
Yeah. That was our bedtime chat tonight.
Is it bad that I opted not to discuss the realities of vaginal delivery with my child in this moment?
I figure, tooth fairy discussion yesterday? Success. Vaginal delivery discussion tonight? Fail.
You can’t win ’em all.
Also, don’t cross my daughter. She will cut you. *makes ominous cutting motion across abdomen*
_________________________________________________________________________________
In other news, I’m working with someone to create a forum for the Club Unicorn discussions that are happening. I realize that the original post is simply too unwieldy to be used for discussion anymore, and so it’s time to move it elsewhere. It’s fine if the discussion continues on current posts until that time, but I’d ask you all to remember civility and love as you discuss people’s beliefs, choices and legitimate perspectives. I love the discussion that has taken place and genuinely appreciate the excellent counterpoint that has naturally occurred. Thanks for talking about such complex issues in a way that, by and large, has been respectful and civil. I think this is a conversation that needs to be happening, and that all of your voices are important components of it.
UPDATE ABOUT COMMENTS: For literally the first time in the last week and a half, I have chosen to delete a comment. You can tell that I am the one that deleted it because it says “deleted by blog administrator.” If you look back to the nearly 4,000 comments this blog has gotten since June 7th, you will see that this is the first time this has occurred. When the text reads “This comment was deleted by author” this means that the author of the comment has chosen to delete their own comment. I have no control over this.
I chose to delete this comment, and plan to delete others like it in the future, because it used explicitly graphic sexual language to describe specific sex acts in great detail. I am completely fine with difficult discussions, accusation, angry discourse and even heated dispute between commenters. My preference would be that people be civil, but I will not delete comments because of strong feelings or opinions. In fact, I welcome full discussion because it adds nuance to the conversation and helps all sides of the issue to be readily seen. I am in favor of education, and of people being informed, and that requires multiple stories and multiple voices. The concepts behind the comment (accusing me of probable infidelity), while totally unfounded and inaccurate, are perfectly acceptable discourse. The reason this comment was deleted was specifically because the type of descriptive language used is graphic enough to warrant an “are you older than 18” passageway warning, which I’m not willing to provide on my blog. I want my blog to be family friendly.
I’m also deleting it because Lolly told me to. And she’s the boss of me.
Ouch! Who did the stitches afterwards? LOL.
Thank you for posting my thoughts Josh, though I am disappointed that you didn't post my other two responses as I believe they were even better than what I have posted today. I look forward to your response and all the responses from your followers, should be very interesting.
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Anonymous, you won't even share your name and yet you call Josh a coward. You are the very definition of cowardice. And as to the rest of your vitrol…take it somewhere else.
Josh, Please delete this post…my kids read your blog. They don't need to be exposed to this type of pornography.
Ewww! Yeah, please delete this post. So pornographic and descriptive to young readers who are here offering love and support. If you ACTUALLY READ the Club Unicorn post you would know that Josh doesn't act on his sexual desires for men, and indeed discussed candidly how much he enjoys a healthy physical relationship with his beautiful wife. Don't distort his reality because it doesn't make sense to YOU. We are all different, and in my opinion, your differences are highly distasteful. 🙁 If you get deleted, know that it wasn't because of your opinion, but because of your grotesque distortion of what a sexual relationship is like, and your intense and inappropriate descriptions.
Wow – porno posts? Really? It's hard to have a "civilized" discussion when that kind of stuff is getting posted – please delete!!
And by "porno posts" I meant the comment above by Anonymous, not the blog post!
Pornographic? That is what happens with gay sex.The detailed description I have given of the sex that occurs between man and man is as I have said before, reality. Just because Josh has not stated he has acted on these impulses does not mean he hasn't. It is a very gullible person indeed when you believe everything a person says without basing your opinion on facts and experience. If you know you are gay as Josh has stated the probability that he has had gay sex is very high. Not only is he cheating on his wife, lying to all you very ignorant readers he is lying to himself about who he is. Guaranteed he will leave his wife in the future for a man. Ask any gay man, the urge, if you are gay to be with another man is not possible to deny, even if you are mormon. So please readers come back to me with a bit of intelligence and a bit of insight about the real facts of gay men living in a hetrosexual relationship.
Actually… He specifically said he hasn't acted on any of those impulses, which is completely believable. Not everyone, straight or gay, is beyond controlling their actions. I simply can't understand the fear/anger/offensiveness people are developing over his decisions and his life.
And yes, I believe you when you say your description is accurate. Dandy. It's pornographic. Whether you're detailing gay or straight sex, the detail is unnecessary and offensive.
Anonymous (angry gay accuser): you sound bitter and obsessed with Josh and his choices. Life is too short to be so angry and unhappy. Just try to be happy with yourself and your own choices. Peace.
Can you please go away? I'm sick of reading comments saying that josh had to have done this or that or will do this or that. Do you know him? Going around and assuming the worst is just depressing. Have some faith in people! That what they are saying is true, that they are not lying to you. This is my brother you are talking about. Get to know him before you start going off on what he has done or will do. YOU DON'T KNOW HIM. Also would you have the balls to say this to his face? If not don't post it.
Really anonymous .. You discussed porn .. Hmmm I don't get it. If you knew how Mormon people think you wouldn't even try to suggest what your suggesting. Mormon really do try to live a Christ centered life and try to do their best to live the gospel including staying faithful to spouses, trying to have a little control over thoughts and actions (. Geez if everyone did what they wanted or thought I can't imagine what the world would be like), and loving people regardless (although Mormons are human too )
Many years ago I met a charming young man who was adopted. The reason he came to be with his adopted family was that his mother chose to marry a wheelchair bound man with whom she would never consummate a sexual relationship. Would she incur your same vitriol? Is it absolutely inconceivable that she might have been able to remail faithful all these years? Is she guaranteed to be cheating on her husband and lying to all and sundry because she has eschewed a full sexual relationship. Is she not being true to herself because she commited to a life where she could not explore her sexuality fully? In a similar way to this woman Josh made a decision than many of us would not be brave enough to make. That you think that entitles you to make vile suggestions and accusations against him without even knowing him says very unpleasant things about you.
And why isn't this woman being held up as an example for all women? All women should be vaguely pressured in a loving way to marry men who cannot have sex.
Lots of folks are saying 'says unpleasant things about you,' etc. an effective technique the first time, not so much the 10th time I find.
And as for that woman who chose to marry a man who was impotent? That actually does say things about her – perhaps she has a fear of physical intimacy, perhaps it's a fetish – we don't know. We just do not know.
My point was not that this situation should be held up as a model for all women to aspire to. It was to point out that you have no right to assert that people must be lying if they make decisions which are not dictated by their sexuality or sexual desire. You have no right or authority to diagnose a woman you have never met with issues just as you have no right to accuse The Weed of dishonesty or immorality. Your "we do not know" comes across as somewhat ironic considering the unpleasant speculations you felt compelled to cast.
Some people have experienced love which transcends the physical. Just because you clearly have not doesn't entitle you to proclaim it to be impossible.
And really, Anonymous – you are suggesting that a paraplegic's only expectation of a loving partnership should be with a woman who is emotionally flawed? Wow – how many war veterans (and supermen) are you intending to offend with that comment?
No, I'm not suggesting that at all. And I certainly have never called Josh dishonest or immoral – I fully believe he is being completely honest and immoral – no, never wrote that or thought that. All I've ever said is that his story will be misused by some to make young gay folks have even more pressure put upon them even though he did not intend this. That is all, that is all I am saying. I think he seems to be a really nice man actually. And as for transcending the physical – gay relationhips also often transcend the physical, just like straight relationships. I realize that the issue comes down to the fact that Mormons believe gay relationships are sinful and as such, will use whatever twist or turns are necessary to maintain this belief. That would be fine as people of course can believe whatever they want but the problem comes in when that belief becomes a way of oppressing others. By oppressing other in this belief I simply mean telling people that who they ae is sinful. Even that wouldn't be a problem if people didn't take that in, internalize it and feel that they only way they can live a truly righteous life is to never be in a relationship that is as natural and fulfilling to them as a straight relationship is to straight people.
It seems to be that the Mormon church is trying to get around this by saying that being gay is only about the physical and not as well rounded as what straight people have. but again, a gay relationship can be as well rounded as a straight relationship.
so to wrap up and hopefully not to continue to be misunderstood: I think Josh is being honest. I don't think he is immoral. I think his story will be used against young folks who are already struggling enough. Again, Josh says he just wants to share his story and not have it extrapolated out to other people. By saying it is not impossible for others to do what Josh is doing, is taking his story and making it more than just about him, and his intention he said, and I believe him, is to have his story just be his story.
Net, gay relationships can be as well-rounded as straight relationships and the same as with the only difference obviously being gender. gay relationships can also be just about sex, just like straight relationships.
I honestly hope that one day your modern day prophet comes to this realization and proclaims it so that all of the pain that LGBQT young people are going through, some to the point of suicide, can be stopped.
Gemma, there is honestly no point in my discussing this further with you because you are coming at it from the belief of equating homosexuality with sinfulness and I'm not. No amount of our back and forthing will ever change that and it really has been my mistake to engage in the discussion, which I honestly apologize for.
I too must apologise. It gets confusing around here with so many people posting as 'anonymous'. I was responding to the one at the beginning of this thread who said "Just because Josh has not stated he has acted on these impulses does not mean he hasn't. It is a very gullible person indeed when you believe everything a person says without basing your opinion on facts and experience. If you know you are gay as Josh has stated the probability that he has had gay sex is very high. Not only is he cheating on his wife, lying to all you very ignorant readers he is lying to himself about who he is." It's hard to see where that anonymous left the conversation and you started. Perhaps you wouldn't mind clarifying for me.
You sure have a lot of insight into my view of homosexuality. I have scarcely mentioned homosexualtiy in this thread much less given a value judgement on it. All I have done is come to the defense of an individual's chosen life-style against hurtful, judgemental people. How did we ever come to be disagreeing?
I started with the comment about the woman who married the man in the wheelchair. And yes, very confusing with all of the anonymous stuff going on.
And, unfairly, I've been assuming your view on homosexuality would be the same as the Mormon Church's but I have no way of knowing that.
We totally agree about the right of an individual to have a chosen lifestyle. Sadly, gay people in same sex relationships deal with hurtful and judgmental people every day so I am totally in agreement with you on this. And a lot of that judgement is from people who tell them that their behaviour is sinful and wrong.
Anyway, glad we got things cleared up.
:o)
Anonymous is disgusting. They also seem to be obsessed with this topic. The upside is that they come back again and again, upping your count each and every time. Bahahahaha! Love to you and Lolly, Weed, the real kind. 😀
I have really enjoyed reading your blog. Stay strong. You have a lovely family. God bless.
That daughter of your is hilarious! We've had that exact talk with my oldest boy (4) but it did not end in his explaining how he cut out the baby! Haha. That's awesome!
Hey Josh, kids have a funny way of looking at the world, don't they? Thanks for sharing the humor in your life. I'm your newest fan.
P.S. About the guy who keeps posting obnoxious comments. Ignore him.
Haters gonna be haters, don't let 'em bring you down. Love the story about your daughter! You are a great writer.
Bobi
http://westernwarmth.blogspot.com
Ha ha I did get cut open to have my baby but luckily not at home by my children and husband…. she is so cool and calm about it. One of my nephews just concluded that my sister ate the baby to get it in her tummy and that the baby had scissors for when it was time to come out……how pleasant. When I taught speech in preschool I was pregnant and told a girl I had a baby in my stomach and then said don't you just love babies? She said no I don't love to eat them. She had a genuine horrified look thinking I meant that I ate a baby.
I am actually really disappointed with all the boring and very naive comments that have come back to me. Josh, good luck with your gay man living a hetrosexual relationship (apparently you know this by not having any sex with a man..hmm) and I would like to think even though I have created a little stir, some anger and some hate that you believers will go away with a little more insight about the reality of life. I know Americans are infamous for their over positivity and mormons, well just hide themselves from society and pretend things are not happening when they are; but good luck to you anyway.
When every reader on here is against your posts, its not called "creating a stir" its watching a united front. Whether you believe Josh or not, and whether I believe Josh or not, is not the issue or even really relevant. You are being disrespectful and rude in a public forum and two things are blatantly obvious: 1, no one here cares what you have to say; 2, you have no real interest in reading about Josh's story because you've already formed an opinion against it. So stop posting and move on.
Over positivity of Mormons? Do you know nothing of our history?
@Anonymous. I was very much aware of being gay years before my first experience. Also, people live chaste lives all the time. Why would this be so different because someone was gay?
I've been pondering these posts the last few days and sifting through the comments and wondering about the bitterness and hate that is spewing forth from "Anonymous" the coward who says all these hateful things and hides behind the anonymity of the internet. I wonder if he/she/it would be so brave as to say it in person, face to face? Sounds like someone is a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Then again, probably just a sad, pathetic person who gets their rocks off by trolling.
Anonymous, what makes you think that Josh has to have had sex with a man just because he identifies as gay? You don't believe that people can lead a chaste life and not have premarital sex or have sex outside of marriage?
Wow, just wow. Surprise, surprise, people do actually believe in waiting until they get married to have sex. Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, online or in porno mags.
Josh and Lolly, I commend you for your honesty. It's not easy at times to be a Latter-Day Saint and have to suppress parts of your life because others at Church might freak out. And it's not because you're doing anything wrong, it's just that some members of the church are small minded when other members don't fit their version of what the ideal LDS person should be. I'm an active member of the church myself and have been since my conversion 34 years ago. Happily married for 32 of those years to a wonderful man who honors his priesthood. Keep loving each other, stay strong, don't let the haters get to you and remember that Heavenly Father loves you for making good choices.
im someone else, not the anonymous person and my name is dave and im gay – what i would like to know is what is josh thinking about when hes having sex with his wife? Is he thinking about her physicality, or is he thinking about the guy in the garage fixing his car? I have met many many many straight men in marriages, and you know what, they are living a lie but they are too scared to leave the security of their home life. D. Dont be naive people, this man is having his cake and eating it. Oh, by the way, if you want to meet me, im 6ft 4 and weigh 244 ILbs and i have a big moustache 🙂
Oh yeah, InkstainedPsyche whatever that means, dont believe everything you read eh? you have believed what josh says as gospel truth (no blasphemy intended)
See my update about comments within the text of this post.
1. Your daughter is a hoot. All matter of fact, with the knife slicing motions! lol
2. I'll chime in to "anonymous" and pose this: What Josh and his wife are doing, by defying prescribed stereotypes (the "gay" man, the "typical" marriage, etc.) is a very brave and honest thing to do, because they have dared to create their own happiness and reality.
I would venture to say, that the frustration that some people will feel when confronted with this notion of a gay man happily married to a woman, is born out of the fact that they have not tried to grasp the concept that you CAN decide your own happiness and your own path, and it doesn't have to match the prescribed pattern that you have set before you by your family/church/society/ etc. As a gay person, ANONYMOUS, I would encourage you to take one more step out of your comfort zone and consider the possibilities — because it was not too long ago, that being GAY was something people couldn't grasp, because it didn't fit the norm, and any tolerance you might have received, I am sure, you could stand to pass on, in this instance. Happily now, being gay isn't hard to grasp. Hopefully, we can take it a step further and be open minded enough to embrace everyone's personal choice- including and especially, Josh and Lolly's.
Uh, Dave (if we're going to engage in being petty about screen names – how do I know your name is really Dave?), the name I'm using is one I've used online for about 20 years now. If you have any Google-fu, you probably can find out who I really am, not that it should matter. What the name means is not important here.
You sure are fixated on the sexual lives of others, aren't you? I find it typical that people like you who want to be accepted as gay, accepted for who you are, are the quickest to be close-minded and bigoted when it comes to accepting people who don't fit your mold. You're judging Josh by your own experience and prejudices. You want him to fit a stereotype of what it is to be gay. The 1950s called, they want their stereotypes back.
Is your stating that you're 6'4" and 244 pounds meant to impress/scare me? And your facial hair or lack thereof is neither here nor there.
heres whatanonymous is trying to say…
has josh had sex with a guy? if so, then yes he knows hes gay.
but just suppose he only thinks about gay sex, this could be a fantasy – as is when alot of women fantasize about sex with women -trust me i know this from speaking to my girlfriends.It doesnt make them gay though, they just like the thought of it – therefore the point is, if josh is having good sex with his wife, then perhaps hes not gay at all.
MY issue with this is that josh is saying that he is gay, but he refrains from any gay sex acts. Therefore he is chosing his sexuality but as a gay man you CAN NOT chose your sexuality and therfore josh is ridiculing gay men and that we should be ashamed of our sexuality and be good little men and chose to live a heterosexual (healthy) life with a woman as the bible says. You are an insult to the gaty community and an insult to the men that have the courage to come out and admit in public they are gay. How would people on here feel is josh wasnt married with kids, that he was just a homosexual churchgoer?
I would also like to point out that this is the wrong message to our children, being dishonest to people around you and to yourself.
I, as a woman, knew that I was "into" boys before I even held a boy's hand. I didn't have to have sex with a boy to know that I was straight. Why would it be any different for a boy who likes boys?
Straight people who choose not to have sex are still straight, right?
Gay activists are always saying that everyone has a right to make whatever lifestyle choices that they want. If this makes Josh happy, then doesn't he have a right to do this and not be judged? Why is it that the self-pronounced tolerant are so very intolerant? Why is your choice valid, but his isn't?
Dave- how can you turn around and tell Josh he is an "insult to the gay community" when someone could have easily done the same by telling you "being gay is an insult to the {insert XYZ community here}. Don't you think it's a little hypocritical of you?
Everyone deserves tolerance and acceptance and some kindness, because we don't know the struggle Josh has gone through and we don't live his life…so how can we judge? Can't it be enough to love and support ANYONE who has the courage to go after being happy, without putting them in a box and saying "Oh but wait, you have to be happy LIKE THIS".
Dave-In Josh's original post he said that he was attracted to men rather than women. He does not have to have had gay sex to be considerd gay. Can gay really be defined by just having sex with someone of the same gender? Gay is more about how someone is attracted to the same gender
So "Dave" you are saying that since josh hasn't experienced sex with a man he can't know he is gay? Does that apply for heterosexual people too? You can't know until you've tried it? Sounds like and excuse to be immoral.
Katie,
I agree with everything but your last sentence. I think you need to understand that some people consider gay sex to be immoral and many don't. If a person rejects the notion that it's immoral, it's not because they're looking for some kind of "excuse". It could be that they simply reject your logic while still placing a high value on morality.
I understand that an ancient book calls it immoral. That same book calls consumption of shellfish immoral. It doesn't have a problem with slavery though. I call that book flawed.
So while you're free to interpret things how you want, please show me and others like me the courtesy of giving us the benefit of the doubt that we're not looking for an "excuse" to be immoral. I determine what is moral or immoral by whether or not it hurts others. Sometimes it gets sketchy. But that's the best I can do. I don't categorically describe sex (even unmarried sex) as immoral. Yes, sometimes sex can be used in ways that I consider immoral. But sometimes it's just sex. You might place a higher value on it and that's fine. Just understand that immorality is subjective.
Bjorge, in case it wasn't obvious. Mormons believe that sex outside of marriage is immoral. Of course we understand that not everyone shares our same morals – so you can decide on any moral guidelines you wish. We reserve the right to respectfully disagree.
As far as not hurting people – I agree. But I also think that the free sex movement has hurt a lot of children who have been born into broken and single parent homes. The Mormon ideal is a lasting loving marriage between a husband and wife with children that are cherished. Unfortunately, this has become a rare exception in our modern world, and there are painful consequences.
I think that Josh and Lolly are role models for a couple that put their children before themselves.
Oh, Dave, here we go again. You're presupposing that churchgoers would not support Josh if he weren't married to a woman, that he was a single person who identified as gay, but was not living a "gay" lifestyle, i.e., what you seem to imply requires that the person has to be actively engaging in sexual relations with someone of the same sex or they can't call themselves gay. We consider sex outside the bonds of holy matrimony to be sinful, regardless of whether it's with someone of the opposite sex or the same sex. I want to be clear on that. There is no gray area.
So then you'd say, well, it's not fair because gays can't marry. In some states they can and Washington state is debating that issue right now. I personally, would be one of those odd Mormons (I guess I can be in Club Unicorn, too, for this stance) that doesn't have a problem with gay marriage in sense of marriage being a legal contract. However, a marriage within the church, and especially a marriage that is performed in a LDS temple, is much more than a legal document and demands much more of those who have been married this way than just a piece of paper issued by the state. And the government has no business meddling in that.
Josh what do you have to say. I see you haven't made any comments or further explantions. Many questions have not been answered by you. This discussion seems to be turning into a group of hungry mormons defending a man that could be and could not be actively gay. Instead of getting your followers to do the talking; of which they bring little intelligent conversation to the table tell us the truth.
inkstained/psyche, whatever that means stop your incessant mumbling, your incoherent natter is boring and completely irrelevant.
Katie, 99% of the population masturbate, which usually contain graphic images in ones mind!! Shock horror is that immoral?
Sounds like a cult to me ladies and gentleman.
John said,
"I see you haven't made any comments or further explantions. Many questions have not been answered by you."
Well, a few things…
First, Josh said in a couple blog posts ago that he was going to respond to questions when he had time. He has had thousands of comments on his blogs by at least a thousand different people, each with their own unique and different perspective on his situation. Most supportive, some vocal anomalies angry and saying they know how his life will end up. So you being upset and saying that he hasn't answered questions is kind of silly.
Furthermore, he has answered one big question, being when they planned on telling their kids. He will answer more as time goes on, I'm sure. I'm also sure he'll be answering many questions on television for the shows that have booked him.
"Instead of getting your followers to do the talking; of which they bring little intelligent conversation to the table tell us the truth."
Ignoring the fact that you, a singular anonymous poster on the internet managed to condemn a few thousand people you didn't know in one comment, let's address the latter part of your sentence, want to?
You said "tell us the truth."
I want the evidence that Josh hasn't told us anything but the truth. I've seen a lot of gay people commenting on his blog and saying they KNOW he's cheating, or that they KNOW he'll leave his wife, all sorts of things, but I want the proof…they DON'T know. They have no idea. So you implying that he's lying and not telling the truth is just plain ridiculous. Until Josh has given us a reason to think he's a liar then assuming he's a liar is a cynical and horrible way to look at life and I sincerely hope you don't extend that kind of cynicism and negativity into every part of your life..
Anonymous said…
Josh, just wanted to send you a brief message (while I let my preschoolers stagnate in front of the television and the stacks of dirty dishes sway precariously), to let you know how much I'm enjoying your blog. My sister sent out the link to your unicorn club post (a frequently debated topic in our family), and not only did I appreciate your (pl.) courage to make your personal life open in order to facilitate an important cultural discussion, but I have since enjoyed the witty style and heartwarming anecdotes of other parts of your blog. Bravo.
Not to get off-topic, but of particular importance to me were your early posts regarding ADHD-I. As a 40-year-old diagnosed just a few weeks ago, I felt like you were speaking for me in your initial comments: "I am tired of trying with all of my might to focus on the things that are important to me, and not being able to. I'm tired of coming up with schedule upon schedule, with back-up plan upon back-up plan, intended to help me focus and accomplish my goals and be productive, only to have those plans and schedules crumble under the weight of my heavy, heavy inadequacies. I'm tired of being disappointed in myself." I sometimes have wondered if this is how addicts feel, seeing how their behaviors are sabotaging their lives, but feeling so powerless to change anything…
When you wrote about how productive and focused you felt once you started Ritalin, I cried. Can it really be so easy? Thank you for sharing your experiences. I know you're very busy with THE BIG DISCUSSION, but if you have a few minutes, I'd love to hear whether Ritalin is still like Popeye's spinach for you.
I'd love to hear too about the Ritalin affects long term.
Katie you don't know for sure what you like until you try it; live outside the little bubble that your life is in. Once again where are the insightful and intelligent people on this forum!!!!!
You certainly haven't added anything to the conversation, John. Interesting thing about statistics (I'm referring to your 99%) is that statistics can be manipulated any way you want them.
Ooh, look, I wondered how long it would be before someone pulled out the "cult" remark. That explains everything, doesn't it? Believe it or not (and once again we're returning to the comment I made that those who claim be liberal and tolerant of different lifestyles appear to be the most intolerant), I don't live in a bubble. I am aware of what's going on "in the world." I don't vote Republican (I'll bet that shocks you because I'm sure you think I'm drinking the conservative kool-aid that all Mormons drink) or Libertarian.
And I defend Josh's right to identify as gay and live the way he wants to. I also defend those who are gay and don't wish to live the way he does. We all have choices to make in our lives.
What a meathead, mistaking this blog for some kind of erotic gay stories site.
Inkstainedpsyche; this is not a discussion about you and your values or morals. I repeat this is not a discussion about you. The word cult has been repeated many times before in this blog; go read them. The explanation of a cult defines the mormons, but i can overlook that. I called you a cult because you have a needy leader so to speak that has fed your minds with lies, manipulated you into jolly clappers and like sheep you have followed. What your leader, in this case Josh is saying to the public is it is OK to be gay but not have a relationshop with a man and it's OK to still sleep with your wife when you get turned on by gay men. This whole blog most probably consists of mormons only, god help the world! To be honest, which is a rarity these days and rarity on this forum Josh is either having sex with men oustide his marriage, making up this story of I am gay but choose to ignore it or is just plain crazy and wants attention from his happy slappers. If I didnt know better I would think that inkstained psyche is Josh himself???
If it bothers you so much to read this blog because it's full of dumb manipulated Mormons who can't think intelligently for themselves, why are you even on here?
Eh? I wonder what makes John an expert on Josh when this is Josh's blog and he has every right to give his own opinions on it?
Stop being ignorant. If this is the lifestyle he chose to live, you are being a bigot in the way I wouldn't want my gay friends to be treated.
– Signed, not Mormon but respectful of Josh's lifestyle
oh im loviog this little collection of nothing! C'mon guys n gals, find me the answer to my question. What is josh thinking about while he's banging the wife? Honest answers only please!
Probably, "More…more…more…Ah!" Isn't that what most people are thinking?
Maybe about how much he loves her? Erotic images are not necessary to have a sexual relationship with someone. FYI.
Josh, I commend you for being a strong person. Not just anyone can put themselves out there the way you have and weather the horrible things some people are saying. I hope you can stay true to who YOU are and not listen to anyone who thinks you should be different. You're an inspiration – not because you are gay and Mormon – but because you are a strong, grounded person.
I am an extremely intelligent and insightful person on this forum, John. I am not LDS and have expressed my major concerns about what Josh is doing on here a few times. I can understand your frustration but at the same time expressing yourself as you are you are simply going to alienate people and further their belief that folks who disagree with them are generally angry and arrogant and they will not listen to you. If your intent is to be heard, you must know that you are not going about it the right way. I read your comment before it got deleted and it was arrogant and angry and even turned me off and I generally agree with what you are saying. It seems to me and I could be completely wrong, that part of the reason you are commenting is to let out some of your free floating anger. It may help you in that way but it is not really convincing people of anything.
– Karen
I agree with John that Josh still hasn't answered many questions. In fact, he seems to be intentionally vague in some of his answers. For instance, would Josh ever encourage one of his gay clients to enter a homosexual relationship? Or does he only counsel them to be celibate or marry an opposite sex partner? How does Josh feel about the suicide of Bryan Egnew who, like Josh, was a gay mormon man who chose to marry a woman? What are his thoughts about the high rate of suicide and homelessness among LGBT youth? In fact, there was a recent news story about how Utah is seeing a rise in homeless LGBT teens http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Utah-sees-rise-in-LGBT-teens-becoming-homeless/LboIk6v82UO7GErL4kRtsQ.cspx.
But what I really wish he'd answer is if he thinks it can be better for a gay person's mental health to not only accept being gay but to pursue gay relationships.
It seems strange to me that everyone thinks Josh *owes* them answers just because he put *some* of his life on the internet. He doesn't have to answer anyone's questions, especially insofar as they invade his privacy and sense of decency.
~Anniba
amen. He need not explain or define himself. I think this got bigger than he anticipated. I doubt he wanted to be the poster child for unicorns.
Anniba,
How does the above question invade Josh's privacy and sense of decency?
Actually, he did answer that question on another site. He said he works with his client, helps them sort out what feelings they have and what lifestyle they want to choose, and then works with their families to help them be accepting of that person's decisions.
As for the rest, what do you mean what are his thoughts on the suicide rates of LGBT youth/people, and homelessness rates? What do you think they would be? I guess I can't speak for Josh, but do you really think ANYONE thinks it's great and fine and acceptable?! Dumb.
jodi, there are thousands of gay people who out themselves every day and risk rebuke from people they love. Do you know, in india if you admit you're gay to your family you are outed from that family and made to leave town! So i hardly think a few horrible things on the internet is really all that scary really. Josh is immoral and is leading a double life but hes surrounded by sycophants who refuse to stand out from the crowd. josh is not being true to himself. Also is as you all say, there is nothing wrong with being gay, why doesn't josh lead a gay life? And what does josh think about during sex. And is he masturbating while the wife is out shopping to gay hardcore porn?
Also, what does Josh think about this study?
http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/suicide.htm
Here's an excerpt:
Suicidal Behaviors in Homosexual and Bisexual Males in Crisis, The International Journal of Suicide and Crisis Studies, Vol. 18(1), 1997, pp. 24-34
Celibate homosexual men had the highest serious suicide attempt rate (2/13: 15.5%). For the 10.9 percent of males classified as homosexually oriented (currently homosexually active males, and celibate homosexual males), the risk ratio for a life-threatening suicide attempt was 13.86 : 1; that is, these males were almost fourteen times (5/82: 6.1% vs. 3/688: 0 .44%) more likely to have made a serious suicide attempt at some point in their lives than their heterosexually oriented counterparts. They also accounted for 62.5% (5/8) of the serious suicide attempters
Finally some intelligent conversation.Anonymous at 2.04pm, your comments are valid and extremely valubale to such an important subject that affects people in our society. To accept/change anything or anyone in life you have to be willing to listen and be truthful. Josh is not telling us the truth, he knows that. That is what I am after and that is what society deserves. There has almost been a festival for him coming out, but no one has looked at the complications and implications it will have on his wife as a woman, his children and to society. When you speak in the public eye you have a duty to speak responsibly and to teach with truth. Josh has not done this. Yes he has been very forthgiving in his story but there has not been complete honesty and that is what fuels my responses on this site.
John, you sure claim to know a lot about someone else life and the truth they speak.
His wife has already known for ages and is part of the decision-making team about what is shared. And this is his personal blog, so why doe he have to have "complete honesty" about every single detail of his relationship and sex life? He can tell the truths he wants and keep what is personal to himself, it is his life and his story, he doesn't owe you anything.
Some good recent comments people, at last some thought provoking argument, this is what forums are for. Upto now it has been pretty much one-sided and sycophantic. I am concerned that this guy counsels other relationships and wonder how his delusionional thoughts affect his judgement and affects his advice. As statistics show, people are not happy in relationships where they suppress their true emotions and many seek to hide these emotions for some time, leading to illness and sadly, death.
Yes, and if his true emotions are that he loves Lolly, then who are YOU to make his decisions for him?
You can love lots of people in your life, I do; the most integral
point of this blog which the mormons are ignoring is that Josh is
gay. He has a right to pursue a life which he wants to pursue. he wouls hurt his wife if he left and his children, but he will eventually hurt them even more if he doesn't pursue a life that is him. The church is wrong and manipulative and so are you church goers on this site to tell him that he is doing the right thing, godly thing. He is doing the
wrong thing, he is living a lie. Shame on him for letting himself
to be manipulated by the church and his environment and the people
in it. He is in turn turning into what they are manipulators, fanatics
that avoid reality and live in their little sect. I am hetrosxeual.
I am married. My husband is my true soulmate, I don't think I could
live without him; but after saying that if I was gay the lie of being married to him would haunt me and eventually break my emotions. No
church, not one mormon has discussed the detremental affects of his
emotional health. Stand up and be strong Josh and live the life yoiu
want, not because you are scared or you have the church telling
you otherwise. You are gay, there is nothing wrong with leading a
gay life. If your wife truly loves you she would understand this
and not try and change you into a straight man.
John how do you know that really? Have you ever thought that he could be the real deal? Just because you could not handle being with a women because of your sexual desires doesnt mean that Josh is going to do the same. I feel this is a total myth. It's a myth and so outdated to think a person has to live by every passion he/she has. That is just a rediculous notion. Geez if everyone did what they wanted or thought I can't imagine what the world would be like. We would see more murders, pedophilia, adultery, sexual addictions (more then we already see out there). Sexual passions is such a huge part of human being but it also needs to be controlled. If Josh wants to control his actions or thoughts, it is very admirable.
If you knew how Mormon people think you wouldn't even try to suggest what your suggesting. Mormon really do try to live a Christ centered life and try to do their best to live the gospel including staying faithful to spouses, staying abstinent before marriage, trying to have a little control over thoughts and actions, and loving people regardless (although Mormons are human too ).
John- What if the life he really and truly wants is to live the gospel and be with his wife and kids?
John,
Agree, and I would say Josh has even more responsibility because, according to his professional profile, he provides therapy to youth. I just wonder how Josh would counsel a young gay person. Josh says he helps people accept being gay, but if you're married to an opposite sex partner or celibate, you're not accepting your gayness, you're denying it. I worry the damage telling young LGBT people, who are already so vulnerable, that they can be gay but must not act gay will cause.
Rolling Stone did a heart wrenching article about LGBT youth suicide http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202
Excerpt from rolling stone article:
In April, Justin came home from school and found his mother at the top of the stairs, tending to the saltwater fish tank. "Mom," he said tentatively, "a kid told me at school today I'm gonna go to hell because I'm gay."
"That's not true. God loves everybody," his mom replied. "That kid needs to go home and read his Bible."
Justin shrugged and smiled, then retreated to his room. It had been a hard day: the annual "Day of Truth" had been held at school, an evangelical event then-sponsored by the anti-gay ministry Exodus International, whose mission is to usher gays back to wholeness and "victory in Christ" by converting them to heterosexuality….
"Justin?" She could hear her own voice rising as she pounded harder, suddenly overtaken by a wild terror she couldn't name. "Justin!" she yelled. Tammy grabbed a screwdriver and loosened the doorknob. She pushed open the door. He was wearing his Anoka High School sweatpants and an old soccer shirt. His feet were dangling off the ground. Justin was hanging from the frame of his futon, which he'd taken out from under his mattress and stood upright in the corner of his room. Screaming, Tammy ran to hold him and recoiled at his cold skin. His limp body was grotesquely bloated – her baby – eyes closed, head lolling to the right, a dried smear of saliva trailing from the corner of his mouth. His cheeks were strafed with scratch marks, as though in his final moments he'd tried to claw his noose loose. He'd cinched the woven belt so tight that the mortician would have a hard time masking the imprint it left in the flesh above Justin's collar.
It would be nice if you could delete this too, Josh – too graphic for kids. Since there are kids who also read your blog, it's hard to scrub this from your brain when you're young and your imagination works overtime.
I don't know why anyone would think reading something like this would turn people to their POV. Isn't honey better for attracting flies than vinegar?
Wake up you single minded person. This is the truth. This is what could easily happen. Ignorant people telling a gay man that he should stay in a hetrosexual marriage when he is GAY! This is not about Josh, thi
is about the church.
sadly, this is the reality. When people counsel, no matter how lovingly, SSA people to deny themselves or they will go to hell, this can be the result. This has been the result. this will contnu to be the result. It's not a POV, it's a tragic fact.
Oh, yeah, that's right, I'm just a sock puppet of Josh's. You amuse me greatly. Believe what you want. And I created my blogs just now and managed to backdate them so it would appear that I hadn't just created them along with my Google name so I could be be a cheerleader for Josh.
I've never met him, probably never will. But we share a common bond and that is the church. You're right, this isn't about me, it's about Josh and what works for him in his marriage. And it is NONE of your business what he thinks about when he's being intimate with his wife. He doesn't have to share that with any of us.
Do us all a favour and get lost! You say you share a common ground,
the church what about sharing a common ground of being a human being
first! Josh is a individual first, a person that should choose his
own path. Your such a fool IP.
Inkstain. of course he doesn't share it because hes lying to you and everyone, heck, even himself. and definately his wife. In fact its the church thats holding him back from the life he secretly yearns but can never have because of the smae that he thinks will be bestowed upon him. And he will lose his security, the loving wife and adoring kids. Oh i can imagine how confused or brain washed they will be when they grow up.
Whaaa…t? Mister, you're seriously projecting your own insecurities (gay or not, I'm not judging). Stop overreaching. Maybe it's all just as simple as finding out that love is based on someone's character, not gender.
Anya
Anya, are you stupid. Did you not read Daves response properley?
You have put you fears of homosexuality onto this man above to cover your own. Love includes sex, even though he has sex with his wife
he wants to have sex with a man, as he said he is gay. You have said
that if you are gay he cannot have love. You have insulted the whole
of the gay community. I knwo gay couples that are married and are tr
truly devoted and in love with each other. Another fool that adds their two cents worth. Go and live with the general population and you
will see what the world is about.
"You have said that if you are gay he cannot have love."
Huh? Where does it say that I said that? You're getting confused now. I've only posted one comment ever and "love is based on someone's character, not gender" means exactly that we fall in love with someone based on what we like about them (kind, generous, trustworthy, etc.), not whether they're male or female. How did you come up with me saying something that has "insulted the whole of the gay community"?
The problem with you is that you turn off more people with your obtuseness and vulgarity than you attract. Who's stupid then?
Oh my word, Anna is hysterical!!!! She hasn't been watching Twilight, has she? All the crunching noises, knives, babies popping out like that… I don't know, quite gory. 🙂
And I'm willing to bet which comment got deleted… HA! That's funny. I mean, the comment wasn't. I can just imagine your faces when you read it. Probably like everyone else's when we did. "What the…? Yup, that really is there in print."
In this case inkstainedpsyche should have nothing to do with Josh being gay. He is gay, it is not evil or immoral it is who he is. The church obviously has controlled him to think he can remain in a hetrosexual marriage when he is gay. That is wrong. It is wrong for Josh to stay in that marriage. I am sure the church would tell Josh that leaving the marriage would leave him with nothing. Brainwashing vulnerable people is all that is.I can't agree with you more anonymous and I hope that Josh realises the truth will set him free, not the church.
If I am understanding your argument correctly, you are saying it is wrong for Josh to stay in this marriage (and for any gay person to pursue a heterosexual relationship) because he's denying that he is gay and therefore he is not really happy with his life. That's cool and all if you believe that, except Josh actually really seems to love his family and the way he is living. He chose this path of life because he likes living what the LDS church teaches, true or not, even if he is gay. HE believes in the LDS doctrine and chose to live as a Latter-day Saint. I don't think it's fair to use words like "control" and "brainwash vulnerable people" when describing the church (maybe North Korea and their situation, because it is actually that extreme…)
And this is not to just John, but everyone else out there (Latter-day Saints and not). This is obviously the problem with all controversial topics and why this discussion won't ever get anywhere. Everyone's arguments and life choices are based on their respective religious/philosophical beliefs, right? So essentially to convince the other side that your argument is right, you need to make them believe what you do. I am a Latter-day Saint, but realistically it won't do me any good to try to tell you the opposite of what you're saying, and the same thing the other way, unless we somehow convince the other person to adapt our set of beliefs. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs (I'm assuming this is the generally accepted idea.. unless you advocate the idea of thoughtcrime in 1984), and even if they are influenced in some way, it is ultimately their own belief. So how the heck are we, Latter-day Saint or not, going to decide what other people should be doing? It's not logical or practical. And really, what is it to us? I think we all need to lay off and worry about OURSELVES doing the wrong thing based on our personal beliefs, not OTHER people doing the wrong thing based on our personal beliefs.
Ji Su Park. Your church is a cult. A cult is a group of people that force their opinions in a manipulative way to convince this person
that they must live a particular way. Your information is a way of trying to manipulate people who are reading this post.This is Joshs
choice to stay in a marriage when he prefers men.I understand why you
cannot understand this as you are part of this sect. There are
countless beuatiful people out their that have strong values and morals
and help people in their community without pusing their beliefs onto another. Every himan being deserves that freedom. The church does not give that freedom. It outs those that do not follow it's doctrine.
Which is why Josh is really not leaving his wife, the church. Logical
as you have stated is suhc a bias word in this circumstance; why should he be logical when he is gay, that is who he is. Put your bais comments away and actually help the man become who he really is.
Excuse the spelling but I am getting tired of having to type so many responses to such ignorant people on this blog. I also mean to type that
that this is the church's choice of him staying in a marriage when
he is gay out of fear.
"This is Joshs
choice to stay in a marriage when he prefers men"
(I'm assuming Josh and John on this comment thread is the same person?)
I think you should read my response one more time. I was talking about how arguing EITHER side (LDS or anti-LDS, or any controversial topic not related to this) is pointless and not practical, because realistically and as demonstrated, you can't get me to believe that the church isn't true/is a cult etc, and I can't get you to believe the opposite, THUS neither of us can make the other believe that one way of life is better. Not by arguing via comments on a blog especially. So what I'm not really understanding is why people on two sides of anything argue over things like this because it's not going to get anywhere. What outcome are you trying to achieve by being on this blog and insisting that our church is a cult and by calling people names? Why are you even on here if it tires you so much to have to answer to so many dumb Mormons? You could try joining an anti-Mormon blog.
Josh is not leaving his wife because he loves her and has good morals, and believes that family is most important and cheating or leaving one's family for self gratification is bad. Period. Why do you care so much that he doesn't live by his "sexual urges"?. What would the world be like if we all lived by our thoughts and by our urges. It would horrible to say the least. It's good to have retraint, I am sure you will agree with that.
This mormon cult thing everyone talks about is rediculous. We all have our own values, we all our set of ideals.
Here the definition of cult(dictionary.com):
1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
According to this definition, even a website full of teenager messaging each other on a message board could be considered a cult. Likewises,even the gay/lesbian movement could be considered a cult because of it being a group "bounded together by veneration of the same thing, ideal".
Just got done reading all your archives, and now i can't wait for more! I'm so glad my sister shared your Unicorn post on facebook so I could discover your awesomely hilarious and loving blog! 😀
John a question: Why is anyone who agrees with Josh a sycophant, and anyone who agrees with you intelligent and insightful?
I am all for an open and honest discussion, but it doesn't seem like that is what you are aiming for. It seems like the gay community that has fought so hard for "acceptance" and "freedom to choose" is turning around and denying the very same thing to Josh.
Call me a coward or a member of a cult or whatever.
I am not ready to be public with my life as Josh and Lolly have, and I would describe myself as bi more than gay as I find both males and females sexually attractive, but I am happily married to a woman coincidentally for 10 years as well.
If this is where I find peace and happiness, and I can reconcile it with my religious beliefs who are you to tell me I am wrong? Will everyone find my answer to work for them no, but does everyone find you answer to work for them? No as well.
Try a little more love and respect and a little less hate. Different isn't necessarily wrong.
The gay community is trying to pass laws preventing Josh's marriage? I had no idea!
Not via law but ideologically telling him he isn't being true to himself if he is happy living as he is, yes. And if you can't see that your views are too biased to engage in real discussion.
Do you think Josh would praise a gay couple's relationship? Especially given that he's said he believes being gay is a sin. Sin = any reprehensible or regrettable action, behavior, etc. So Josh thinks being in a gay relationship is a reprehensible act, and other people think him, as a gay man, marrying a woman is a reprehensible act. So everyone's even!
Except, I should add, gay couples aren't even with Josh since his and other religions keep fighting against their right to marry, etc.
John, well done for being married for 10 years when you consider yourself bi. I commend anyone that stays faithful and committed that long admirable indeed. Your description of hate is different to mine.
Hate, what you say I have is speaking the truth in the most rawest possible way.All the readers have done is continously pushed things under the carpet. Once again, Josh is gay, let him lead a gay life.
Once again the church forbids a gay lifestyle, even marriage and that is part of the reason why he stays. You, like so many religious people
hide behind a set of rules, some of which are right, some of which are controlling and inhumane.I find it sad that the church would deny himm a life that deep inside he wants to lead. Your comment;"It seems like the gay community that has fought so hard for "acceptance" and "freedom to choose" is turning around and denying the very same thing to Josh". The church has denied him freedom and so have people like you. To admit your gay takes courage takes courag, but to live a life that reflects so deeply who you are is trully admirable, true courage and strength. Think before you supply your thoughts.
John–Why do you assume that living a gay lifestyle is what "deep inside [Josh] wants"? As he noted in the Club Unicorn post, any lifestyle we choose requires us to give up certain things in exchange for others. If Josh lived a gay lifestyle, the relationships he has developed with his wife and kids would never be the same. You seem to be dismissing those relationships as irrelevant to what he really wants. But shouldn't they be some of the most important things he considers before changing his lifestyle?
Maybe a more important question is why you believe religious rules "are controlling and inhumane." As a society we impose upon ourselves thousands of laws or rules that proscribe certain behavior because collectively we view the behavior as unacceptable. (e.g., rape, murder, assault, child abuse.) And you could even argue that some of that behavior has only a negligible effect on anyone other than the law-breaker (e.g., some drug laws, gambling laws, seatbelt laws, etc.). We're all free to break any of these laws, but when we do we suffer certain consequences. Does that reality deny us of some freedom? In one sense, sure. But our laws collectively foster far more freedom than we would have in a lawless world. In that sense, laws and rules are not controlling and inhumane, but freeing and civilized.
Why can't the same be true of religious rules and religious people? No one is forced to abide by a religion's rules. But there are intra-religious consequences for those who break them. If you don't believe the religion is true, those consequences shouldn't really matter to you. But if you, like Josh and many others facing SSA–or for that matter, any other natural tendency that makes living any particular rule more challenging–believe in your religion, you also believe that its rules are ultimately freeing, not controlling. And if your religious beliefs reflect even more deeply upon who you are than your sexual orientation does, what you will really want, deep inside, is to live your religion despite that orientation.
Anonymous @ 3:00 PM,
I have a question. What would your reaction be if there was a religious group of LGBT people who believed that being straight was a sin? They teach their children that it's a sin and not to be acted on. One of their children grows up and writes about how even though he's straight, he's chosen to enter a homosexual relationship because of his religion. Would you feel that it's more important for him to live his religion despite his orientation?
Yes, if he genuinely believes his religion is true and believes in the doctrines it teaches. I might disagree with him about the truth of some of those doctrines, but I would never tell him to base his religious beliefs on his sexual orientation or any of his other natural inclinations. So many in the gay community seem to believe that orientation should always trump religious belief. But unless you view your homosexuality or your heterosexuality as the defining fact of your existence, that seems myopic to me.
In fact, if there is such a thing as divine law, then personal growth, understanding, and blessings seem much more likely to come from conforming your natural inclinations to religious rules rather than the other way around. If you believe that there is such a thing as sin, you can't adjust religious belief based on natural urges without simultaneously redefining what sin is and becoming a law unto yourself. If churches created or modified religious doctrines just because people naturally felt like doing or not doing something, we would end up with religions that teach people it's okay to steal, lie, cheat, covet, etc., as long as you have the urge to do so.
On the other hand, if people choose their religion based on a genuine desire to find the truth, and if they then strive to abide by the religion's rules (even when it means sacrificing something), I think as a society we would progress much more quickly toward universal agreement about which doctrines are true and which are not.
"But unless you view your homosexuality or your heterosexuality as the defining fact of your existence, that seems myopic to me."
I'm a bit confused what you're trying to say here. Are you saying people should ignore their sexual orientations? In what ways does someone let their heterosexuality or homosexuality define their existence? Does being in a relationship mean you're letting your orientation define your existence? Please explain.
I think it would be great it there was an article from a straight person who, like Josh, chose to be in a mixed orientation relationship with a gay person! If Josh can overcome being gay to be in a heterosexual relationship, I'm sure a straight person could do the same. I knew a woman once who had a young daughter and lost her husband. A few years later she married a woman, and they raised her daughter together. I wonder if that was the case for her or if she was indeed bisexual or a late in life lesbian. It would seem to go along with the idea that our sexualities don't matter when it comes to picking a partner.
To anonymous at 6:38.. I think it's possible to turn any straight person gay if tthis put in the situation long enough. Have you seen the psychological phenomenon that happens when people are put in a room together over a long period of time ? Lol. A lot of bad things happen but it that way. I know this can be the case and the reason why …
Well a few years back I got myself into things that were inappropriate. I am straight but because I opened myself up to things and got exposed to sexual things I became desensitized to most things. I was even willing at one point to go have a fling with the same sex because I could and because I had opened up a can of pandoras box. I wanted to have flings with anyone really just to do it, even threesomes etc. Back a few years ago when I allowed myself to be overly sexual I was not happy in fact I was miserable. Once you go down a slipper path it's hard not to "think" what you are doing is ok. But it wasn't.. I rationalized my way into thinking it was. It was not me. But because I exposed myself I became complacent. Luckily I woke up, repented, and know look back and see how misguided I was by the world. People told me it was in my nature and yes being a sexual being is in everyone's, It really how you control it. I have learned my lesson well and see so clearly now. I am NOT my desires. I am me. A person who is able to control passions now. One thing I will say. Guilty feelings is usually the spirit telling you it's not right. So if a person feels guilty about actions even the slight. Run away. It's not correct. It gods way of telling you your on the wrong path. Period. You will get a spiritilual confirmation if you are doing what's right.
No, I'm not saying people should ignore their sexual orientation. (That would be pretty close to impossible for most, I think.) I'm saying that their sexual orientation is not their only core characteristic, and that they shouldn't get so fixated on it (or any other characteristic) that they let it dictate their religious beliefs. In other words, I'm saying that I believe people (as individuals and collectively as a society) are better off when they conform their behavior to their genuinely held religious beliefs (if they have any) than when they modify their beliefs to mesh with the importance they attach to their sexual orientation or any of their other physical characteristics.
By the "defining fact of your existence," I only mean putting a higher priority on your orientation than anything else. To some degree or another, we all define ourselves by our physical traits (e.g., "I am gay," "I am tall," "I am an amazing athlete," etc.). I don't think there's anything wrong with that unless we become so obsessed with those traits that we allow them to crowd out of our minds other, more important, aspects of who we are (e.g., "I am a child of God,"). Of course, if you don't believe in God you might disagree with me about what should be most important. But my post was directed at the comment above about choosing between religious beliefs and orientation-based behavior.
So you believe it's best for people to conform to their religious beliefs no matter what? Even if those beliefs are harmful to them or cause harm to others? Seems like that's kind of a dangerous precedent.
@Anonymous 6:58
Not sure what your story has to do with that post. But I've known people who had many sexual encounters like yours in their pasts. They were all happy for those experiences and had no negative fall out from them. So I would say it wasn't being overly sexual that was the problem, but how you personally felt about it. Besides, you said we shouldn't be criticizing Josh's choice because he's happy, right? So lets not start criticizing those who choose more sexual freedom if they are also happy.
I'm talking about conforming behavior to religious belief in the context of sexual orientation and other physical characteristics. I feel like you're talking about something else now.
To anonymous at 6:38.. I think it's possible to turn any straight person gay if tthis put in the situation long enough. Have you seen the psychological phenomenon that happens when people are put in a room together over a long period of time ? Lol. A lot of bad things happen but it that way. I know this can be the case and the reason why …
Well a few years back I got myself into things that were inappropriate. I am straight but because I opened myself up to things and got exposed to sexual things I became desensitized to most things. I was even willing at one point to go have a fling with the same sex because I could and because I had opened up a can of pandoras box. I wanted to have flings with anyone really just to do it, even threesomes etc. Back a few years ago when I allowed myself to be overly sexual I was not happy in fact I was miserable. Once you go down a slipper path it's hard not to "think" what you are doing is ok. But it wasn't.. I rationalized my way into thinking it was. It was not me. But because I exposed myself I became complacent. Luckily I woke up, repented, and know look back and see how misguided I was by the world. People told me it was in my nature and yes being a sexual being is in everyone's, It really how you control it. I have learned my lesson well and see so clearly now. I am NOT my desires. I am me. A person who is able to control passions now. One thing I will say. Guilty feelings is usually the spirit telling you it's not right. So if a person feels guilty about actions even the slight. Run away. It's not correct. It gods way of telling you your on the wrong path. Period. You will get a spiritilual confirmation if you are doing what's right.
No, I'm not talking about something else. Sometimes trying to conform behavior to religious belief in the context of orientation and other physical characteristics is harmful.
@Anonymous 7:56 — Still not sure exactly what you mean. I'm not talking about people being forced into something they don't want to do. My original post on this thread was in response to the argument that Josh couldn't possibly want to be in a heterosexual marriage because of his orientation. My point is that that's only true if you place a higher priority on your orientation than on your religious beliefs. I don't see how conforming behavior to religious belief in this context is harmful if it's what you WANT to do (which it obviously is in Josh's case).
At anon 7:57… My point and using own experience as example. It IS possible if a straight person can go gay if allowed and putting themselves in situations that promote a gay lifestyle. I was able to with no problem. Not because it was "natural" but because I put myself in situations that desensized me… I literally was all turned on for the same sex etc . Now I am not of course because I took myself out of situations that led me to that. I was just answering the question if it was possible and yes it is. Sex is such a powerful thing and sex drives can easily distract a person from what is real and what is not especially if you take yourself down a road that you might not be able to come back from.
As a healthcare profession I can attest to thr fact that having to much sex with more then 1 person is extremely dangerous and exposes a person to lots of problem. Even gay sex is just as dangerous and there's a lot of things that can happen because of it.. Including STDs, incontinence ( yes I have seen it in young gay men, it's not pretty) and much more. I will tell abstinence before marriage and stay clean during marriage is the only is really the only true way of staying safe.. Hmm and the Mormon church teaches those principles. Interesting how science is catching up with those principles.
I am such the fan of Anna!!! SO hilarious.
I have a five-year old sister who I KIND OF taught how babies were born too just a few days ago. I was teaching her about baby Jesus being born and she was like "Did he come out this way *points to mouth* or this way *points to general down there area*?" I told her the latter, but I'm pretty sure she thinks that we poop out babies. I'm not really sure what to do about it.
I absolutely love your blog. Thank you for your strength and courage to talk about such delicate matters openly!
go lolly.
and i totally failed that question the first time, too. better luck next time to the both of us! 🙂
As a follow on to my comment moments ago, the suicide rate among LGBT youth is tragic, but comments condemning people who have found a way to live that works for them don't seem like they would do anything productive for that. Isn't the aim to help young people feel accepted as they are and then help them find a path to follow that leads to happiness and success? Many alternatives are available, and not all of them will work for everyone, but this is not an either or discussion, there are many options.
Back away a step and look objectively at how you are making your point. You don't comfort a child by screaming and shouting at another adult, that just breeds more fear. Why can't we all be allies in helping youth realize that suicide is such a waste of their potential, and that life will get better?
To put it bluntly a message of hate from any side is unproductive.
Would you feel the need to help a heterosexual kid find a path to follow? Would you tell them to maybe think about becoming homosexual or celibate?
I think you also need to step back and look at why the suicide rate for LGBT youth is so high compared to their heterosexual counterparts. Suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Absolutely I would love to help ANY (does that need repetition?) ANY kid find a path to happiness. I would certainly examine all options with them.
I regularly advise youth and adults alike to abstain from sex before marriage, and practice fidelity within marriage. So the celibacy issue is moot to me, if my wife died I would be celibate unless and until I remarried. If I am advising a homosexual or heterosexual young person I give the same advise, abstinence and fidelity.
You are correct suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum, but filling the already tension filled air with more tension, by ridiculing someone for suggesting a third or fourth or fifth option isn't doing them any favors. Trying to make a very grey issue black and white doesn't help a young person see a path out of hopelessness.
Why do you think LGBT kids have a higher rate of suicide? Do you think straight kids ever kill themselves because they're straight? Not rhetorical, they're honest questions.
Are you a therapist? If you counsel youth to abstain from sex before marriage, what do you tell gay kids who can't legally get married?
I think the higher rate of suicide stems from a lack of understanding and acceptance, and a higher rate of persecution.
I don't think the emotions are different among homo/heterosexual suicides, the rate is higher because kids in the already awkward phase of figuring out who they are personality wise, socially, morally, ethically, physically, etc. are presented with an extra hurdle that unfortunately is vilified by significant sized, often vocal, sections of society.
This is where having either side of a very sensitive issue calling the other names or being bigoted just throws fuel on the fire.
I haven't ever encountered a situation where a person committed suicide BECAUSE they were straight, but I have seen too many people do so because they struggled to feel accepted and loved, whether homosexual or heterosexual.
Does the state have to bless it for it to be a binding contract between two people? If you are truly committed to someone for life, any paper given to you by the gov't is merely window dressing.
That doesn't answer my question of what you tell gay kids who can't legally get married what to do.
Josh has found a way dictated to him by the church anonymous, based out of fear for condemnation. I wonder where you get your statitics from. I am a social worker that deals with vulnerable kids every day, sexual abuse, neglect, physical abuse and if I were to tell them how to live their lifes and bang on about God I would lose them and then they would end up in an even more vulnerable state than they are in. Once againI don't think you people konw what reality is because you hide from it.
You wanna know what I think.. If kids are suicidal it's the parents fault hands down. Where are the parents is my question to help their teenager or youth through trying times. Kids need both a male and female adult figure in their life. We see what happens when broken homes happen all thr time. Thr divorce rate is HUGE. People don't stay commuted anymore and are setting bad examples for our youth. Kids are being raised with a father or mother and everyone assumes that living like that will be ok for their children. It is NOT. There is only certain things moms can teach and certain things dads can teach. They need to see both sides. Parents also needs to be a listening ear so kids can come to them about everything including tough topics such as this. Our morals in society is not what it use to be and sadly it will only end in the decay of a society ( a.e. look at what happened to Rome ). For the young man that is struggling…. Know that there are people that struggle too you are not alone. In fact we all struggle with things. Don't give up !! Know your god lives you regardless and find the support you need. Be strong, love yourself ( but in the right way).
Omg all the grammatical errors in my post above !! Geez 🙂
Omg all the grammatical errors in my post above !! Geez 🙂
Anonymous @6:21 PM
That is an overly simplistic view of suicide and depression as well as wrongheaded. Teen suicides happen in families with both a male and female adult figure in their life. Teen suicides happen where the parents talk to their kids and are involved. Teen suicides happen when parents listen to their kids. Teen suicides happen in moral families. Suicidal teens may have everything going right from an objective viewpoint.
Suicidal depression is not objective and cannot simply be cured by morals. Truly learn/educate yourself a little more about the topic before making such wrongheaded statements.
Dave and John (I'd think you were the same person except Dave doesn't know how to use punctuation or grammar correctly so I'm saying you're separate people:
So John, I think I don't understand this sentence since you seem to be having difficulty forming coherent ones "In this case inkstainedpsyche should have nothing to do with Josh being gay." Is English not your first language because I would have to excuse your poor syntax. What does this even mean? I don't have anything to do with Josh being gay.
And Dave, finish high school first, learn to write and find something better to do than troll the internet.
Brainwashing, sure. I know I underwent long sessions of being brainwashed – yeah, they locked me in a secret underground lair in the Wasatch Mountains where they hooked me up just like in Clockwork Orange to make sure that I would be easily controlled. And naturally, this is what they did to Josh, too. Free will (or agency as we call it, had nothing to do with anything we believe in. It was all mind control.
Your intolerance for anything that doesn't fit your agenda is just so ridiculous. You sound just like so many of the narrow-minded homophobic bigots it's like I'm listening to someone from the Westboro Baptist Church in reverse.
Would that all brainwashing occurred in the way you describe as it would be so much easier to determine when it has occurred. More often it is something like this: if you are told something often enough, you begin to believe it (especially but not always if this started when you were quite young) This belief is then reinforced repeatedly if most people around you also believe it. If you are told how to interpret the Bible and the Book of Mormon over and over again, then you will believe that and again, the reinforcement from those around you will only make this stronger. Now if you are also repeatedly told that the God of the universe not only popped by America but also left tablets for Mr. Smith to find and that you will be married for eternity and that being involved in a same sex relationship is evil, you will internalize all of this and also be convinced that you are believing this out of your own free will.
Not to unduly pick on LDS folks, Jehovah''s Witnesses think they've got it figured out, fundamentalist Christians too, those who believe that Allah is the only true god and on and on (and on). Heck, Scientologists believe as strongly as you believe what you believe, that someone named Xenu once existed. I'm not saying that those are cults or that LDS is a cult. But brainwashing takes many many forms. And the thing is, when you have been brainwashed you cannnot see it, that's kind of a hallmark of being brainwashed. No one thinks, 'gee, I've been brainwashed to believe this." No, instead they may think, "I am thinking this of my own free will completely (or agency as you call it.)"
Westboro church's homophobia is horrific and shameful but they are pretty much saying the same thing – homosexuality is a sin and those who practice it will burn in hell. They just don't cover it up with niceties. Intolerance is intolerance.
You can insult me now I guess as you did to Dave (although, yeah really his spelling mistakes and poor grammar were distracting) but to me, that's a sign of not being able to debate intelligently. Unfortunately, there has been way too much of that going on in the comments.
– Karen
Karen you have resorted to a very childish comment about something that has no relevance with the major issue of Josh leading a gay life. I told you I am tired of having to state the facts to you silly people that have no idea of reality. Your reality is your cult. I have heard your comments before and they are dismissible.
INKSTAINE – my spelling mistakes and grammar etc are due to lack of importance placed on this post and the faCT (oops)that im a busy guy and therefore internet trawling is not my main hobby, altho i suspect josh has a little surf every now and again in his private study. oh, am i alluding to something here? mmmm. no course not. Actually inkstain, yea you really put some time into that name didnt you, better than cumstain i suppose..Karen, thanks for mentioning my mentioning my debating technique, i'll come to you for lessons shall i? Perhaps ill become a member of the women's institute and joing the thursday afternoon get together where we can all drink ice tea and enjoy a nice cake. Hey speaking of how everyone on here is so smart, who can tell me where europe is? bit tooo easy, ok, whoooo knows where Angola is? mmmm few blnk looks ill warrant…
I've not really read too many comments on here, the're all the same bar one or two. What does strike me is how people lick ass for rear of rebuke i guess, from the church, josh and all the other members on here. See that's the control aspect of religion Im not too comfy with (you distracted yet karen?)that and this site stinks of it. Obviously from inside it cant be seen (love is blind and all that) but out here, oh my lored you should see….
Anyway, before i become toooo sarcastic for your sheltered little eyes and lives, i better head off. I'm travelling again and i need a passport. Any of you got one? Dont worry, you only need one if you are leaving the country. No, your state is not a country. Yes, im off to another oppresive country, where they follow the islam way. They have a god too but by christ if you're a homosexual over there they will cut ur dick off. Funny how all gods are the same or thereabouts isnt it, each one more right than the other of course. Maybe there isnt one anymore, maybe he just died of old age or lack of interest. why doesnt god intervene anymore like old times, why isnt he on facebook? back in the old days he used to visit people, impreganate virgins (rape now i guess) srt bushes on fire…but not even an email these days, let us know about armageddon etc. Like a crap friend, never rings, never comes to visit. enjoy the rest of the blog people, ill be back in a week, alot wiser than before (see, travelling broadens the mind too) maybe some new friends and a whole lotta new experiences. Something you guys are a little short of reading on here. Oh josh, see you in ten years, but watch those porn bills dont get too much. LOL
Karen, If what you are describing is brainwashing, then we are all brainwashed. You want to pick on religions for doing this, but is happens to everyone to some degree or another. What you are describing is the passing on of culture.
But I'd argue that the passing on of culture doesn't generally include the idea that if you are gay and in a same sex relationship, that you will burn in the fires of hell. Is that culture?
both Anonymous posters…call it passing on culture, call it socializing our children, call it brainwashing…we ALL do it, and only use negative terms like brainwashing when we disagree with the value system behind it.
You guys are missing the crux if Josh's message…LOVE AND ACCEPT ALL, EVEN IF THEY MADE A DIFFERENT CHOICE OR BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY.
Got it?
good.
I'm all for free speech, man, but this is insane. I just skimmed down here, and I'm embarrassed that I even read some of those venomous comments. None of that is intelligent debate. It's your blog, Josh; you don't have to put up with this. Everyone doesn't have to agree, but you don't have to be insulted in your own space. I know I wouldn't allow most of these comments on my blog. All the funny from your daughter's view of a C-section is buried and lost in the all the vitriol.
Weed,
You don't know me, nor will you ever, but I wanted to tell you what a great person you are. I hope that one day, I can be half the person you are. You are truly my hero!
More power to you! Your girls are adorable and Lolly is amazing. Lucky man, you! Thanks for having the guts to share your story. You're a wonderful writer to boot–I've laughed several times at various posts!
Wow! Josh, you've opened can of worms! It took them a while to come out, but here they are, in plain sight. They are Uruk-hais of the actual world.
Now, I'm sure that the most devoted readers of Josh's blog posts and corresponding comments are young people with same-sex attraction. They are here, among us, invisible. They do not comment, they just consume, soak up, absorb every single word, as they look for answers.
We are in a middle of a fierce battle for their minds. With your candor & confidence, you Josh have made a tremendous advance in that battle, and you don't seem to be giving up in gaining further ground.
Now, of course, that does not bode well with Uruk-hais of the gay universe. I have no doubt that their counter-attack, which has just begun, will keep increasing in ferocity with every passing hour.
The gay universe is their precious dominion and they will not give it up and let it go easily to a "jerk" like Josh.
So, for the young people with same-sex attraction who read this, let me say the following. Probably the most important decision you can make in your life, even before you decide on whether you pair with a guy or a girl, is to choose to abstain from sex before marriage and then to be completely loyal and totally committed to a person you chose to marry.
When I say "marriage", I do not mean "marriage performed by a government official", I mean "ceremonial commitment for the rest of one's life". It can and should be performed exclusively as a private arrangement, in a church of one's choice or otherwise.
If anyone who purports to be your friend encourages you not to care about abstaining from sex until commitment, rest assured that he or she is not your friend, but your fiercest enemy, and you should better treat him or her as such.
While you decide on whether to pair a guy or a girl, make your decision thoughtfully, do your own due diligence of ideas, don't be afraid to ask tough questions, and consider those who get upset with your questions as somewhat less reliable sources of valid information.
As you look for reasons to engage in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex, you probably don't want to seek advice from a person who is in a same-sex relationship. And vice versa. It is typically a bad idea to seek advice from a Ford dealer about Toyota cars.
While seeking advice, those who do not try to intimidate you into a decision but instead let you make your own choices are probably better advisors than those who would try to push you around, harass you, threaten you or belittle you.
Try to have a balanced approach in your research. Devote approximately same amount of time & effort to each available option: same-sex relationship, opposite-sex relationship or celibacy. Do not pay much attention to those who would tell you that one option is so much better, that other options do not deserve to be carefully examined. And while you examine them, always keep in mind that sexual abstinence before commitment, and then strict faithfulness to your spouse are of paramount importance for your happiness. If you can't wrap your head around that idea, then you probably won't be able to benefit from any of the thoughts presented here.
If you don't understand that abstinence before commitment and faithfulness after commitment are crucial, you are not in a business of building lasting relationships. You are instead in a business of copulating. And for that, there is no need for thinking or having a research of any kind. You simply unbridle your passions, and that's the end of story.
Why does everyone assume someone's religion holds them back? I'm Catholic and I don't think being gay is wrong. A lot of this just reeks of ignorance. Just because you belong to a church doesn't mean you're brainwashed. Try getting out every once in a while.
Also, I'm sorta fearing for my life because of Anna. Her cuteness is a ruse.
Wow! Josh, you've opened can of worms! It took them a while to come out, but here they are, in plain sight. They are Uruk-hais of the actual world.
Now, I'm sure that the most devoted readers of Josh's blog posts and corresponding comments are young people with same-sex attraction. They are here, among us, invisible. They do not comment, they just consume, soak up, absorb every single word, as they look for answers.
We are in a middle of a fierce battle for their minds. With your candor & confidence, you Josh have made a tremendous advance in that battle, and you don't seem to be giving up in gaining further ground.
Now, of course, that does not bode well with Uruk-hais of the gay universe. I have no doubt that their counter-attack, which has just begun, will keep increasing in ferocity with every passing hour.
The gay universe is their precious dominion and they will not give it up and let it go easily to a "jerk" like Josh.
So, for the young people with same-sex attraction who read this, let me say the following. Probably the most important decision you can make in your life, even before you decide on whether you pair with a guy or a girl, is to choose to abstain from sex before marriage and then to be completely loyal and totally committed to a person you chose to marry.
When I say "marriage", I do not mean "marriage performed by a government official", I mean "ceremonial commitment for the rest of one's life". It can and should be performed exclusively as a private arrangement, in a church of one's choice or otherwise.
If anyone who purports to be your friend encourages you not to care about abstaining from sex until commitment, rest assured that he or she is not your friend, but your fiercest enemy, and you should better treat him or her as such.
While you decide on whether to pair a guy or a girl, make your decision thoughtfully, do your own due diligence of ideas, don't be afraid to ask tough questions, and consider those who get upset with your questions as somewhat less reliable sources of valid information.
(Comment continues)
(See previous comment, it continues here)
As you look for reasons to engage in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex, you probably don't want to seek advice from a person who is in a same-sex relationship. And vice versa. It is typically a bad idea to seek advice from a Ford dealer about Toyota cars.
While seeking advice, those who do not try to intimidate you into a decision but instead let you make your own choices are probably better advisors than those who would try to push you around, harass you, threaten you or belittle you.
Try to have a balanced approach in your research. Devote approximately same amount of time & effort to each available option: same-sex relationship, opposite-sex relationship or celibacy. Do not pay much attention to those who would tell you that one option is so much better, that other options do not deserve to be carefully examined. And while you examine them, always keep in mind that sexual abstinence before commitment, and then strict faithfulness to your spouse are of paramount importance for your happiness. If you can't wrap your head around that idea, then you probably won't be able to benefit from any of the thoughts presented here.
If you don't understand that abstinence before commitment and faithfulness after commitment are crucial, you are not in a business of building lasting relationships. You are instead in a business of copulating. And for that, there is no need for thinking or having a research of any kind. You simply unbridle your passions, and that's the end of story.
"If you don't understand that abstinence before commitment and faithfulness after commitment are crucial, you are not in a business of building lasting relationships. You are instead in a business of copulating. And for that, there is no need for thinking or having a research of any kind. You simply unbridle your passions, and that's the end of story."
Very well put.
WOW I love what you said. This is soooo true. I would also include being prayful in a decision like that. Get that answer one where you feel good about and have no regrets. Decide what is most important to you and what is not. Just remember that one day we ALL regret our decisions and look back on our life saying "what the h… did we do". Look to the future and anticipate your older self on your death bed and see how you will feelabout how you lived your life. Will you regret not having a family? Will you regret the opposite? In the end, nothing in life can be taken when we die, only our memories, regrets, families etc. Remember that….
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/18820407/memorial-set-for-hawaii-teen-who-was-bullied-to-death
Now granted, this was a different form of bullying. But bullying is also telling someone repeatedly that while you love them and God loves them, they will burn in eternal hell should they ever ever choose to be in a same sex relationship.
The comment that folks who advocate for same sex relationships are the evil ones fighting in spiritual warfare (as in the comment above) is incredibly disturbing for many, many reasons. Once it is presented this way, in the sort of ultimate 'us' vs. 'the evil them' scenario, then rational thought will no longer be listened to. Tragically, people often call evil or less than human what they do not understand. More horrifically, they say that this is not only their own personal thoughts but God's as well. Is this your God, Josh? These are some of the kinds of folks who are taking great delight in what you have written – those who would call those like me evil or, uh, trolls from Lord of the Rings. Folks who think like this push people to the margins of society and unwittingly or not, make it acceptable for bullying, the type that the article I linked to, to occur. But, but, but, some will say, Josh is not advocating bullying! Okay but some who are commenting on here are. Imagine if you were the SSA child of the commenter above? Where does that child go for support? I cannot imagine living under the tyranny of that kind of thinking. That is creating God to be just like you with your prejudices, fears and disgust at folks in same sex relationships. That is a heck of a price for young people to have to pay. That is not righteous, that is evil.
– Karen
In the future, maybe don't post at night, when creeps like that one guy have all night to post yucky things like that. In the daytime, you can catch and delete sooner 🙂
I am so glad you deleted that one. I felt like I needed brain bleach after reading it this morning. And I agree completely with your reason. I don't mind the discourse; I do mind that type of graphic language.
I like a man who listens to his wife!!
Oh, goodness – some of these comments just hurt to read. I'm so sorry, Lolly and Josh. I…think you should delete a whole lot more of them!
You are just loved. It's that simple. Thanks for being so open and honest and strong…God bless you – and continue to give you wonderful fulfillment and joy and contentment in your marriage and with your girls.
Agreed!
*pukes in own mouth*
agreed!! People are horrible especially when they have an agenda. 🙁
Don't feed the trolls! Some people just post to get attention. I would pile insults on their posts but really, they'll just like it. If you ignore them, they'll go away at some point.
Josh. This is the best advice you will ever get. Live your live the way you want to. Don't live it by the word of the church or of other people. You can be a good person without the church and you are a good person no matter what sexuality you are. You will regret it if you are not true to who you are.I know it would be extremely difficult to leave your family for a gay life but look past your environment that you are in and make your own choices. If your wife truly loves you she will accept you as a gay man and let you go. Good luck with your life Josh x
Did you really just tell him to live his life the way he wants to, then tell him to leave his wife and be true to himself? Are you blind to your hypocrisy?
Seriously! I think you missed the point of what Weed wrote, John!
It sounds like Josh IS living the life he wants to live … that just is not the life an insecure gay man would live … and I say "insecure" because trying to convince Josh to leave his church and family and live a homosexual life style shows insecurity. If this anonymous gay person was truly secure in his own lifestyle he would not be hounding Josh this way.
Uruk-hais get itchy and condescending. So, let's continue with the same tune.
Message for young people with same-sex attraction continues. One of the most important thing you can do is not to deny your feelings to yourself.
Yes, as Josh would put it, you don't try to persuade yourself that your sexuality is playing trick on you. You may very well end up realizing, as Josh did, that "the girl thing" (for guys) or "the guy thing" (for girls) isn't going to happen. You may also very well end up realizing, as Josh did, that "the guy thing" (for guys) or the "the girl thing" (for girls) is definitely happening. And it is perfectly okay to feel that way. It is perfectly okay to realize, as Josh realized, that the attraction to members of the same sex is "a replacement" for the attraction to members of the opposite sex. (A clarification for Uruk-hais. When I say "a replacement", I mean nothing more or nothing less than what a straight young man or woman feels when he or she expects to feel gay feelings at the time when his or her sexuality start to kick in.)
It is extremely dangerous to deny those feelings. Because the denial can bring you to insanity and/or death. And that is the last thing I or Josh or anyone with good intentions would want.
When such a realization fully kicks in, by that sheer fact you actually set your foot on a journey. The beginning of that journey is right there, and the end is at the last breath of your hopefully long and rich and fruitful life. Everything that happens in between is your choice and responsibility. Your are the captain of the cruise ship called your name.
Now, what are the next steps on that journey? You may wish to reread my previous comment (split in two parts, for convenience). There you can find some advices which I find very sound. But that's me. You take what you find good or useful and throw what you find bad or useless. You do that carefully, painstakingly and determinedly. You keep doing it day in, day out. You will make mistakes, I'm sure. No one is perfect. But then you return and do it right, because you know.
As you do that, never forget what was the original premise. You don't deny yourself feelings. You can liberally deny yourself any course of action, but never try to deny yourself feelings. Feelings are real, you embrace them and you deal with them, one way or the other.
If you take a course of denying yourself any feeling that spring up from any course of action that you decide to undertake, you will little by little start loosing them one by one. And then you will end up being like… hmm… Zombie?
No. You will end up being like Uruk-hais, I would argue.
what's with the pseudo intellectualism?
wow, FG mormon, you are incredibly condescending.
Sure. It is quintessentially condescending when I invite people to take from me what they find good or useful, and throw what they find bad or useless.
no, that's not it. It's more the pseudo intellectualism and the tone of writing where it seems you want to show oh just how intelligent you are.
I was interested in your comment about co-op schools. What are they and how do I find one in my area? I shudder to think of sending my little girl when the time comes! I live in St. Louis and I really dislike the public schools here and cannot afford a private school, and they are mostly catholic anyway and I feel like it would be too confusing to send my child as we are LDS.
Message for young people with same-sex attraction continues.
Now, why is so important that you keep making informed decisions related to your self-sex attraction throughout your life carefully, painstakingly and determinedly?
It is because you don't want to find yourself in your later life suddenly realizing that you made a terrible choice, and that you've lost a lot, if not most of your precious time & energy pursuing exactly the opposite thing than what your core being actually wanted to and was intended for.
If that happens, you may quickly find yourself on the edge of utter desperation which may lead you towards a tendency to take away your life. And that should simply never be an option.
It would be easy if you could have your present age while at the same time also all the knowledge & experience that you will have acquired up until your final moments of your mortal life. But life doesn't work that way. Some things you will inevitably need to learn from others, and often times take them on faith rather than on understanding.
While you do that, you should be very careful in examining credentials of the people you turn to for advice. For example, I have zero credentials, as you have no clue who I actually am, as I'm just another guy from the internet. So, you need to take whatever I or anyone like me say about the issue with the big grain of salt.
On the other hand, Joshua Weed has credentials. Let us put aside for a moment the fact that he is an accredited family therapist, as I do not esteem such credential very highly, generally speaking. However, what I do esteem very highly in him is the fact that he made a huge effort throughout his not very many years of life to really understand his homosexual attraction. And he has done that with uncompromising boldness and courage. Rest assured that he and his family would have never been able to withstand the heat of the public revelation that he is gay if they didn't prepare themselves properly. Just think how would you feel if complete strangers would write about you in public forums things that are written about Josh and his family all over the internet.
I'm not saying that there are no people with high credentials on the side of the debate which is opposite to Josh's, nor I'm saying that you should not get familiar with their viewpoint. I'm just saying that Josh Weed is very special and very important because there were few (if any) like him who would bother to come out and suffer huge consequences. One rarely needs that kind of hassle. That does not mean that there are not many more, much more men (and women) like him. I'm one of them. It is just that we didn't see the point of doing what he did.
Well, Joshua Weed gave us that point. (Thanx, man.)
I am a 19 year old man struggling tremendously with SSA. Every day is a huge struggle. I do not deny my feelings in any way though. I feel like a want a relationship – a complete relationship with another man and I readily admit this.
You are so right about not denying feelings, so so right.
My father put it best: "Never deny your feelings, son. Just don't ever ever ever act on them. It is your choice to make. God loves you unconditionally. But if you ever make the choice to be in a same sex relationship, God will still love you but you will be eternally separated from him and go to hell."
That made perfect sense to me – God cannot sanction me if I act on my feelings – I deserve to go to hell if I do. I really really believe that. I deserve to burn in the pit of hell.
But honestly, the struggle is becoming too much. Not being able to act on what is in the depth of my being is just too much. And to be honest, the pressure I feel from others in my religion and ffrom commets like i see on here make me want to kill myself, i feel liek i have no hope. I hfave zero attaction to girls but i think my ony hopfe is to find one who will marry me anyway even though i don't feel able to love a woman. it wil be a choice – i will force myself every day to love her.i hope to find a young woman who will marry me even though she will know that i fwon't love her at all really, other than like maybe a sister or a cousin. But josh says that is okay and many of you say it is okay too and that is a bit of a relief. i will deny myself and she can deny herself too.
Anon, I wish we were talking face to face. I wish I could hug you and tell you how perfect you are just as you are. My own son is gay and, in my belief system, that is okay. He will someday, hopefully, find a husband and they will have children. You can have that too.
Please, look carefully at what you have been taught. G-d does not want you to kill yourself. If your belief system has brought you to that point, please, question that belief system! G-d does not want you to suffer. G-d does not want a husband and wife to "deny themselves."
Whatever you decide, whatever choices you make, love yourself. Please, love yourself.
Anon, If you need them, here are two phone numbers for you. For GLBTQ youth, there is the Trevor Project hotline at 866-4-U-TREVOR (488-7386). For everyone there is the National Suicide Prevention Lifelife at 800-273-TALK (8255)/800-SUICIDE (784-2433).
Anon, if you are feeling suicidal, it is important to talk to someone. The above numbers from Fresh Hell, Texas are an excellent resource to anybody who is feeling those feelings. I'm so incredibly sorry that you feel so conflicted. I also hope you are able to talk to trusted allies about what you are going through. Find sources that will love you exactly where you are in this moment, and who will avoid condemning you or any choice that you make for your life. YOU are in charge of your life. Nobody deserves to feel the profound feelings of despair that you are feeling, and those feelings are an indication that you are not at peace with your current decisions and/or life-circumstances. I don't know what the answer is for you, but I do know that God loves you no matter what. I also truly believe that if you access help and support, you can find the personal insights that will help whatever is feeling incongruent inside of you find some resolution. Feelings are messengers. Try to find the message of what your feelings are telling you. Enlist the help of a mental health professional if you can. I truly believe you can find peace, and want you to know that there are many here who love you for who you are, without judgment.
Also, thanks to you Fresh Hell, Texas for your kind and supportive words to this individual, and for providing such an excellent resource. I think I'm going to make those numbers more publicly visible.
Anon, I am humbled by the fact that my remarks has encouraged you to share your struggle. Although I indeed suspect that there are many more like you who read Josh's posts and corresponding comments, one can never know for sure until a reader like you gather his or her courage and speak up. Now that I see your response, I find my efforts to write comments completely worthwhile.
I don't know what religious beliefs you have, but I can tell you that I am, like Josh, a faithful gay Mormon married to an exceptional woman, and I have three children. I cannot tell you for other faiths, but as a Mormon, I can share you some of my personal beliefs about Heaven and Hell.
First, not all those who appear to be faithful in their respective religions are going to end up being in Heaven. There are not a few who will likely go straight to Hell.
Then, not all who are currently in a homosexual relationship will be finding themselves in Hell. God gives us our lives and our time on this Earth to go through all different kinds of experiences, and then He judges us not until our time is up. That is why it is so important that we let HIM decide when HE will call us back to Him, and not take the matter in our own hands.
If I would need to choose between taking away my life and engaging in a homosexual relationship, I would unquestionably and invariably choose the latter, because with that choice there is always a possibility for more choices, perhaps of a different kind.
Now, let me tell you a bit more about your feelings. You seem to be accepting your same-sex attraction, but at the same time you are mightily wrestling with it, because you probably feel a strong urge to do something about it.
Let me suggest that you are fairly young and that you can easily postpone your actions and decisions until you gather more information about yourself and the options available to you.
I personally had a first crush on a male friend when I was 16, but I haven't fully decided what to do with it until I was almost thirty. For more than a decade, I was carefully exploring my inner self and the world around me, so that I was able to confidently say what I want and why.
I did my research from a perspective of a non-believer, as my parents were atheists and I knew nothing about religion. But early on, my inner moral compass has shown me that my chastity is of utmost importance if I want to remain capable for honest and straightforward exploration of my feelings. And that is what I recommend to you.
If for any reason you find yourself not entirely chaste, you should not worry, as I often found myself in a similar situation, but I worked it through.
The chastity is important simply because it helps you solidify your choices, and that is important because as a responsible adult, you want to live your life with integrity, and that at some point requires some choices to become strong and immovable.
However, you are still in an early stage of your adulthood, so you don't worry if you are not sure about things. As you mature, proper choices will spring up before you as if God personally put them in front of you. And you will know for sure that it is God's hand that brought forth those opportunities for you.
So, in a conclusion, I would argue that the best thing you should do for yourself right now is to sit back, relax, and enjoy your ride. Time for making decisions will come naturally, later on.
Josh, You are welcome. I think putting both numbers in a visible spot would be a great idea. Sadly, as you know, some who come here are really struggling. I'm hoping for them love and peace.
Actually, FG Mormon, and i want to be honst, your comments wweren't helpful to me really. I ht reply when i mean to make a new comment.
but thanks Fresh Hell and to Josh and esepecialy thanks for the phone numbers. that is comforting.
Anon, I'm so glad you're stil here and that the resources were comforting. You deserve all the help and support in the world to help you feel safe and loved.
If I might share one more resource with you it is the It Gets Better Project http://www.itgetsbetter.org/ Nearly all of the videos are by/about people who were bullied or felt like outcasts because of their sexuality. I will share with you that I don't think there is any video on there by a gay man who is married to a straight woman. However, I think the larger experience may provide some hope to you. At least, that is my wish.
I cannot tell from your letter if you are Mormon but if you are, here is a video from that website by BYU student and faculty, http://www.itgetsbetter.org/video/entry/9148/
I wish the very best for you.
Funny post. I can see how your daughter would say that if Lolly had had any cesarean births. Did she? I ended up with a c-section (after many hours) for each of our three daughters. And yeah, I hope kids learn about normal vaginal birth.
Good thinking on looking into moving this into a forum. Sorry you have to read the negative stuff. I think people are already beginning to miss the point. Still loving & spreading your message!
PS You should make a button 🙂
Yeah, love the forum idea. Great place to discuss ideas instead of people hijacking your (awesome) blog.
I forgot yesterday to actually comment on the content of the blog post.
You had talked with Anna about the c-section Lolly had with Tessa, prior to that point, I'm assuming? It's crazy how kids mix things up in their minds about what really happened when we tell them things. My last child was delivered via c-section, after having all the previous ones being vaginal deliveries. I don't think we said anything to the youngest, as he was 19 months when his brother was born, but I'm sure we told the rest of the kids that the doctor had to cut my tummy open to get the baby out.
Anna certainly has an interesting take on things 🙂
When I came home from he hospital with my second son, my then four year old boy said, "Mom, he didn't come out of your mouth did he?" apparently he thought I would vomit the baby up.
This is the first time I have posted on your blog. Honestly you coming out has been so thought provoking that I literally cannot get it out of my head. I discuss it with anyone and everyone. It made me so happy and then confused and then worried and then excited and suddenly I was full of a million questions that no one can answer. Thanks for making me think outside the box and try to understand ALL sides of being gay and the challenges that come from it.
P.s my son has been saying some pretty graphic things lately too and I don't know if I should lock him up before he turns serial killer on me, he is three. Great story!
I was wondering why my web filter has your site blocked as pornography now. Huh. ANYWAY though. I just want to tell you guys how much I have fallen in love with your family. I have been reading your posts and laughing along with them. Josh you aren't the only one with deformities, my sister has a serial killer eye also. It sounds like you guys had the exact same experience. My poor mom had to shove one of those lovely giant contacts in my sister's eye at five months old. My sister has said that if I ever need an organ she'll gladly leave me her right eye when she dies… ahhhh sisterly love. As for the negative comments from the crazy people…I thought of a lot of things to say but thought better of it and decided that the best defense of you guys would be a positive thought. You guys are amazing, I stand behind you and I know that our Father in Heaven loves you both so much!! I find myself thinking that you were both put here in this time and place for each other and for all of us reading this. Thank you for your sincerity and TRUE love.
Thank you for your posts. They really mean a lot to me.
I grew up in a big lds family. I became aware that I was gay when I was 11. I tried to hide those feelings and was constantly terrified of being found out or feeling that I was a terrible person. Consequently, I spent most of my teen years depressed and sometimes suicidal. At 17, I finally told my father about it. He was very sweet about it and had me go into counseling. At the time that was exactly what I wanted. I thought maybe a psychologist would be able to sort me out and cure me of the feelings I was having for other men. Of course I later realized that was not how it worked. It was helpful in giving me somebody to talk to though. At 19, I served a full time mission hoping to be cured by the time I got back. This did not happen. Most of my 20s were spent going to to different counselors and for awhile I tried to embrace being gay. I thought the only way to do this was to denounce my religion and seek out homosexual relations. This was really freeing for awhile but over time it just started to feel like more of a lie than if I just stayed celibate and held on to my religious beliefs. It's been hard because I don't feel that people in the mainstream gay community nor the people in the lds church can accept me so everything stays a secret.
You coming out has given me hope. Again, thank you.
That was brave of you to write. I want you to know there are many in the LDS community who support you, though I don't fully understand it all.
Agreed. The best thing about the Club Unicorn post was that it perfectly summarized my feelings as well. By making sexual orientation the main topic, Satan keeps us from recognizing truly amazing attributes. It only distracts us and causes us to miss the point to just love each other.
Do you think SSA will continue for all time and eternity, or is it something people only struggle with in this life?
Words from Elder Lance B. Wickman from the Seventy:
"One question that might be asked by somebody who is struggling with same-gender attraction is, “Is this something I’m stuck with forever? What bearing does this have on eternal life? If I can somehow make it through this life, when I appear on the other side, what will I be like?”
Gratefully, the answer is that same-gender attraction did not exist in the pre-earth life and neither will it exist in the next life. It is a circumstance that for whatever reason or reasons seems to apply right now in mortality, in this nano-second of our eternal existence."
Reader #4 Checking in now–I was here long before Club Unicorn took the internet by storm.
Agh-those were the days. *sigh*
You are incredibly brave and so is your wife. I don't think it's anybody's business who you think about in the privacy of your home while spending private time with your wife. Period. And it's sad that that Annoymous dude with the deleted comment is so obsessed with YOUR thoughts. I mean, really. Who cares? I certaintly don't care who you think about in throes of passion (no offense).
I have been reading your blog for about a year now and you always make me giggle. I know that it's healthy and real to write about improtant topics–however I hope we can still read your funny thoughts too. 🙂 The garbage disposal post made me snort Diet Pepsi through my nose and made my husband laugh when I read it to him too. He is a mechanic and has been the fixer in many of those kinds of situations! HA!
Josh and FG Mormon. Just as I was making the decision to stop reading the replies to your posts (but not the excellent blog itself) because of the hideous and judgemental posts of a couple of trolls I saw both your replies to a troubled teen. The love expressed in those words and the sound advice given to anyone in that same situation were truly profound and raised my spirits again. Josh, having immersed myself in your blog for the last week or two, both your coming out and your wonderful warm stories of family life, I can't bear to think of you and Lolly reading these accusations of dishonesty and immorality. I really hope that your can bear each other up to withstand this onslaught.
Congratualtions for not buying into the philosophy of man that your sexuality is your most fundamental defining characteristic and must be obeyed at all costs. Why are people so loathe to believe you when you say that giving up the chance to watch your eternal partner bear your children, and to raise those children together, would be a greater sacrifice for you than forgoing what might perhaps be the most fulfilling sexual relationship you might have?
Finally, I love that in the midst of all this, you are still sharing with us the lovely little gems that occur in your delightful family. Keep them coming. Your girls are adorable!
Dear Gemma, thank you for your kind words of encouragement and support. There is opposition in all things, so those who demean & belittle are just as important as those who fortify & uplift. Now that Josh has coined it, the phrase "it's okay if you feel that way" is slowly but surely becoming my byword. It is a litmus test of one's capability to care.
Without any intention to undermine your heartfelt message of love, let me give you my perspective of what I believe is very important piece of your account that some of our heterosexual sojourners do not always understand to a sufficient degree.
Sexuality may not be the most important feature of one's character, but it has become clear to me through my experience that it is nevertheless both fundamental and defining. Otherwise, homosexuality wouldn't be as nearly emotion-laden subject as it is.
I also found (and Josh has taught me great deal) that the key to understand and to properly deal with same-sex attraction is not just to accept it as a reality of life, but to learn what to do with it in the most appropriate manner.
One cannot get rid of it, nor can pulverize it into oblivion, nor should necessarily act upon it, but one can and should definitely do – NOT something ABOUT it but – something WITH it. If it sits there idly, as a lame duck, it feels as such a waste of an extremely powerful energy. Waste that is difficult to bear.
But as soon as one employs it in appropriate ways, it creates an incredible creative vigor that is absolutely stunning.
A heterosexual sojourner may find these my words suspicious, as he or she would argue: "What's the use of that obnoxious companion that no one wants, many denies, and can potentially cause an eternal disaster?"
"It is okay to feel that way." Still. You don't know. You simply don't know. You never will. I cannot tell it. I don't blame anyone for not believing it. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believe it myself.
So, back to the question: what one can do WITH it? I have been puzzled with that question for years, until I ran into Josh's blog. Then it dawned on me. The answer is ridiculously simple!
One just needs to be gay! Not like "homosexual", but like "alert", "animated", "blithesome", "bouncy", "carefree", "cheerful", "cheery", "chipper", "chirpy", "confident", "convivial", "festive", "forward", "frolicsome", "fun-loving", "gamesome", "glad", "gleeful", "happy", "hilarious", "insouciant", "jocund", "jolly", "jovial", "joyful", "joyous", "keen", "lively", "merry", "mirthful", "playful", "sparkling", "spirited", "sportive", "sprightly", "sunny", "vivacious", "zippy".
In a word, like Josh.
I like your thinking 🙂
If more of us were "gay" in the sense you're using it (and I kind of miss the old days when the word meant what you're saying in that last paragraph) the world would be a better place indeed.
I have a bit more to say, but this is not my blog, it's Josh's, so I will respectfully restrain myself and leave my philosophizing for my own very- neglected blog.
I'm so glad I found this blog. I really enjoy reading your posts (other than the nasty comments) and feel like I "get" what you are trying to say. Thank you for your honesty and willingness to share your life. I am sure that your posts will help many people – both gay and straight. Keep up the good work and keep posting!
Josh and Lolly,
I was referred to your site (yeah, I know Josh writes most of it, but it still seems like a joint venture to me) by Slate and the Deseret News.
I found your revelation refreshing and enlightening. I cannot say I understand everything fully. But there is so much information that seems either inadequate in scope or generally suspect that I find your writing about this topic to be somewhat revelatory.
Also, I appreciate your courage. I assume you have found that your audience has gotten huge fast. I also assume that will die down a bit over time but you must still be acclimating a bit to the new found “fame”. Like it or not, you are probably now a bit of a standard bearer. It is my sincere hope that you will be adequate to the task ahead of you.
It seems like you have found the right balance in your lives. I hope that continues. As for me (and others like me) your writing can help us to understand how to best react to our brothers and sisters who struggle with SSA. Thus, your discomfort may allow others some measure of peace.
Again, thank you. And (to quote Red Skelton) may God bless . . .
This last comment is for Josh.
I wish I had not found your blog the way I did. Someone posted a link to it on their facebook and then the link from there got posted to another social networking site. Most of the people commenting there were very negative in their comments so I had to go see what all the furor was about. And in reading through all your blog entries, I found a warm, sweet guy who writes the most hilarious stuff. Having raised five kids with my husband (I was going to say myself, but he helped) I know the crazy stuff kids come up with. And you and Lolly sound like the kind of people I gravitate towards at church, who maybe are a just a teensy bit off center (and that's a compliment, by the way).
The haters will disappear from here and leave those who really are interested in what you have to say as part of your readership.
Holy Cow! Your story is so much bigger than I expected it to be! It's amazing the dialogue that this has opened up. Crazy!
Just a few things:
1. This too shall pass. The frenzy will fade, and soon enough you and Lolly can enjoy some peace in your life again. Hopefully your message and positive impact will remain. But, the media has its own version of ADD, and will soon be chasing after the next big story. (Where is Brangelina when you need them?) Like the reader stated before me, your friends and supporters will stay, and the others will move onto the next big thing to yell at (whether they agree or not. Some people just like to be mean.)
2. Tell Lolly she is the bravest woman I know. I teared up the other when a random man flipped me off because I was driving the actual speed limit on the way to work! I can't imagine the hurt that some of the comments have cause her. She is my hero.
3. I meant what I said the other day…if nothing else, you have changed the life of someone that is close to me, for which I will be forever grateful.
Take care and take heart. Those that are with you are greater than those that are with them 🙂
After thought- if you meshed your names together, you'd be Jolly. Isn't that fitting for how happy you are together.
I am still astonished by the welcome, by the interactions and by the sensitivity of this topic. First of all I would like to say that I am a gay man, and that I dated a married man. Yes shame on me, a Mormon gent! Until today he refuses to acknowledge his homosexuality, and all he can think of is "what will my wife do, or say, what will my peers at Church do, what will my family member's think of me? I will loose this and that… and the list goes on and on. Sadly for both of us we no longer can be together. His family takes precedence and I know it, I always have. Still it is the lies which I refuse to live by, and even though he was the first man to kiss me in public and to hold my hand…..he still expected me to take a step back into the middle ages…I take my hat off and salute both Joshua and his wife. Yes, a gay man who wanted a family and who has a wife you has accepted him and who loves the whole "packet". Great, so he has chosen not to indulge in sexual encounters with other men and thus far has not had the emotional need to become close to another man. That is the fear that his wife has that she is faced with daily. Lolly, I do not pretend to disrespect your marriage..but your gay husband is just that "a gay man". Please do not destroy him, accuse him, and never put him down for wanting to explore whom he really is. Joshua may never have sex with other men but he may one day become very close to someone of his own gender; someone like him…a non sexual sinner…..Will you be prepared to face that situation? You have the advantage that other women do not have: You have not been lied to! Please always have an open heart because you may loose your husband's heart. I know that the man that I fell in love still loves me. He also "loves" his best friend , the mother of his children and the woman he wakes up to….I often have told him that I could not promise him a garden of roses, that there are many satisfactions that one can get from ones children and from the unity of an intact family. I know that because I also was once married. In any event lets not forget what this couple has done: Love, honesty and commitment with the underlying factor that one day a homosexual man may just want to be that…a positively gay man, proud of his religion, of his family, of his friends and of the Church and perhaps of his lover. Nothing wrong in waiting until that happens..Yes one must attempt to stay away from the challenges of the flesh….but I sure do not think that a homosexual man is ever free from loving another man. I have a lot to learn and for now I must learn how to love a man who is not ready for me. Who is committed by marriage to someone else….and sadly he is as gay as I am.
Oh, Anna! I love her utterly macabre and nonsensical discussions. I hope she continues to let it all out!
I heart you guys.
In one of your posts you mentioned that you knew acceptance and disapproval would meet you after "coming out" but that you knew it was the right thing to do. After reading some of the comments to your posts I have to think that they are partially what the disapproval was in reference to. I appreciate the fact that your blog is a source of openness and information but to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's first and foremost a blog about the crazy, wonderful, often absurdly entertaining thing called life and the joy of sharing it with family. Josh and Lolly, you are wonderful and brave for openning up and letting us see a glimpse of your life and the love your family shares. Don't let the negative comments get to you! You're wonderful and I feel priviledged to read your blog!